Cylinder pressure to TDC system
Cylinder pressure to TDC system
Just a placeholder, will add info tomorrow when we build it.
Problem: Harley does not divulge ANY information, and majority of people working with them are pretty... Empty minded.
Pickup ring is built into crank, which is completely blocked out from the world. Only reason we have info is because we have a open motor, and was able to do some basic math to calculate TDC offset. Which also appeared to be off by 10-20 degrees in the retarded direction. Calculating TDC without a timing light or cam sensor, proves to be difficult.
Idea: Simon from UK has had a great idea of using cylinder pressure as a close approximation of TDC. Use a pressure sensor, stick into spark plug hole and see Pressure peak, and use rusEFI to show difference between timing.
Problem 2: I WANT IT DONE NOOOOOOOW! So have to work with whatever I can get asap, found a pressure sensor from a ford GDI as per Matt's & Simon's suggestion.
Solution: Gonna use compression tester tube, fabricate an adapter to it on a lathe, and attach Fuel pressure sensor into it. Wire it up to proteus, and get matt to either do some magical programming to make it show the peaks, or two just look at logs and see offset.
Will add pictures as we start work on it tomorrow.
Sensor: https://partsavatar.ca/2013-2018-ford-focus-new-pressure-sensor-bosch-0261545038?gclid=Cj0KCQiA15yNBhDTARIsAGnwe0WJtMWaU_Itn2K7ZXlHvRHZkZ1aXO6vvDiKCqz-MLAzK_ybK9f4ZgsaArabEALw_wcB
m10x1 45 degree flare
Compression tester: https://www.amazon.ca/Petrol-Engine-Compression-Automotives-Motorcycles/dp/B07BKWPPDR/ref=asc_df_B07BKWPPDR/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=335224436156&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3046944275065435222&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1001920&hvtargid=pla-467133934297&psc=1
Adapter: Will upload when it is created
Problem: Harley does not divulge ANY information, and majority of people working with them are pretty... Empty minded.
Pickup ring is built into crank, which is completely blocked out from the world. Only reason we have info is because we have a open motor, and was able to do some basic math to calculate TDC offset. Which also appeared to be off by 10-20 degrees in the retarded direction. Calculating TDC without a timing light or cam sensor, proves to be difficult.
Idea: Simon from UK has had a great idea of using cylinder pressure as a close approximation of TDC. Use a pressure sensor, stick into spark plug hole and see Pressure peak, and use rusEFI to show difference between timing.
Problem 2: I WANT IT DONE NOOOOOOOW! So have to work with whatever I can get asap, found a pressure sensor from a ford GDI as per Matt's & Simon's suggestion.
Solution: Gonna use compression tester tube, fabricate an adapter to it on a lathe, and attach Fuel pressure sensor into it. Wire it up to proteus, and get matt to either do some magical programming to make it show the peaks, or two just look at logs and see offset.
Will add pictures as we start work on it tomorrow.
Sensor: https://partsavatar.ca/2013-2018-ford-focus-new-pressure-sensor-bosch-0261545038?gclid=Cj0KCQiA15yNBhDTARIsAGnwe0WJtMWaU_Itn2K7ZXlHvRHZkZ1aXO6vvDiKCqz-MLAzK_ybK9f4ZgsaArabEALw_wcB
m10x1 45 degree flare
Compression tester: https://www.amazon.ca/Petrol-Engine-Compression-Automotives-Motorcycles/dp/B07BKWPPDR/ref=asc_df_B07BKWPPDR/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=335224436156&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3046944275065435222&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1001920&hvtargid=pla-467133934297&psc=1
Adapter: Will upload when it is created
"Dave B. 5:03 PM
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
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Re: Cylinder pressure to TDC system
Mark I love you.
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Re: Cylinder pressure to TDC system
Just like its nearly impossible to find TDC with a dial indicator by looking for the top, I expect you'll have the same issue only worse with a pressure gauge. If you run a high speed log and and pick a point , say 100psi before and after TDC, then TDC will be ABOUT in the middle. With a dial indicator its exactly in the middle but piston rings leak so so the center pressure point is probably going to be touch advanced but their will also be lag in the sensor so maybe it will all just sort of work out.
I've been away from H-D stuff for a while but isn't there a side cover on the clutch side opposite the cams? The most accurate thing to do is pull that cover and find or put a mark on something rotating (or actually mount a degree wheel), then make a welding rod pointer you can move around. Then use your dial indicator to find TDC and get you pointer right, then spin it over with the ECU connected and use your timing light to get the ECU set correctly. 2 hours work tops and it will be exact.....doing it the right way will be faster and much more accurate.
I've been away from H-D stuff for a while but isn't there a side cover on the clutch side opposite the cams? The most accurate thing to do is pull that cover and find or put a mark on something rotating (or actually mount a degree wheel), then make a welding rod pointer you can move around. Then use your dial indicator to find TDC and get you pointer right, then spin it over with the ECU connected and use your timing light to get the ECU set correctly. 2 hours work tops and it will be exact.....doing it the right way will be faster and much more accurate.
Re: Cylinder pressure to TDC system
2 hours tops it is not. m8 engine contains all oil there and im not drilling into the bike.
"Dave B. 5:03 PM
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
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Re: Cylinder pressure to TDC system
Look at that beautiful trace!
Re: Cylinder pressure to TDC system
"Dave B. 5:03 PM
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14373
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
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Re: Cylinder pressure to TDC system
Please post a link to log file or attach .zip file. Please post an image of the physical setup.
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
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Re: Cylinder pressure to TDC system
Log: Keeping in mind phase is 50/50 hence the 5 start attempts. TDC Offset set to 0 for data reasons and due to bug
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=457
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=457
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"Dave B. 5:03 PM
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
Re: Cylinder pressure to TDC system
And heres rear cylinder being tested. 315. dead on.
"Dave B. 5:03 PM
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14373
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: Cylinder pressure to TDC system
Did you destroy compression tester to make test apparatus?
I need a test tube to find TDC on honda element.
We also need to run same test on a vehicle with known TDC like miata or volvo. We need detailed fabrication instructions
I need a test tube to find TDC on honda element.
We also need to run same test on a vehicle with known TDC like miata or volvo. We need detailed fabrication instructions
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
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Re: Cylinder pressure to TDC system
...buy any compression tester ..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313396674222?epid=19012428643&hash=item48f7e5beae:g:SF0AAOSwH1JgRwzF
..buy any pressure sensor ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/265124922381
..and mount it together .. ??
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313396674222?epid=19012428643&hash=item48f7e5beae:g:SF0AAOSwH1JgRwzF
..buy any pressure sensor ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/265124922381
..and mount it together .. ??
.. some Proteus and microRusEFI for sale in Europe ..
Re: Cylinder pressure to TDC system
JRD and then dont forget buy a lathe, and some pipe, and fabricate your own little adapter. Reason I havent posted what compression tester is because I rifled through a few to find the correct fitting, and got one with threads instead of latch .
"Dave B. 5:03 PM
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
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- contributor
- Posts: 435
- Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:19 pm
- Location: Slovakia
Re: Cylinder pressure to TDC system
OK ...
I know all that things. ...
but..
I have one cheap "chinese" tester, works good, and it has something UNF or NPT thread .. similar to metric M 10x1.0
....presure sensor has M10x1.0 thread ...
I can screw any M10x1.0 sensor to hose, use any kind of LOCTITE 243 glue ... a it has no preblem ..
works well ..
I know all that things. ...
but..
I have one cheap "chinese" tester, works good, and it has something UNF or NPT thread .. similar to metric M 10x1.0
....presure sensor has M10x1.0 thread ...
I can screw any M10x1.0 sensor to hose, use any kind of LOCTITE 243 glue ... a it has no preblem ..
works well ..
.. some Proteus and microRusEFI for sale in Europe ..
Re: Cylinder pressure to TDC system
Thats exactly what I have! but I used pipe tape!
"Dave B. 5:03 PM
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
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Re: Cylinder pressure to TDC system
That bung you had milled out looks a lot like the spark plug thread bungs we drill out to use as O2 sensor extensions