work in progress Project: Poncho

[AndreyB]

One step closer

Remember that while you know rusEfi timing advance (sparking angle from TDC) once you look at the console or TS gauge, you do not know OEM timing so you still do not know true TDC offset. Do you have OBD connector on the OEM harness? Can you use something like Torque for Android with an elm327 device to see what is the OEM timing? Or maybe there is some mark on the engine you can use with a timing light?

But even without knowing TDC position you are good enough to at least idle this engine with rusEfi spark control.

[Nehrenholz]

I have an OBD wire somewhere in the harness, but I haven't looked for it yet. I ordered the ELM327 interface from ebay/china twice and was scammed of my money and no product ever arrived so I gave up on that.

For now, I have the RusEFI controlling coils 1,3 & 8. I'm not sure why HL2 was not getting a signal nor why HL7 was always high. Since I don't know TDC, the igniter is sparking at both TDC for compression and for exhaust.

[video][/video]

[Nehrenholz]

[AndreyB]

try US or CA seller?

I am not sure we are on the same page with TDC. You are saying you do not know if it is TDC#1 or TDC#6, but I am saying that you do not know the exact location of any of these TDC disregarding potential 36o offset. Only once you would know your idle timing you would be able to sync both ECUs while both ECUs are firing on the same timing advance angle. I think you need to ask somebody who knows LS engines what is OEM timing advance and they would know with a three degree precision which would be a good start.

Time for some multi meter troubleshooting the board? Or just use another HL channel since you have 8 and you only need 4 now?

[AndreyB]

Since I don't know TDC, the igniter is sparking at both TDC for compression and for exhaust.

And that is called 'wasted spark' and my understanding is that this is good enough. But #177 regardless

[Nehrenholz]

Yeah you are right, I was referring to the TDC being when the OEM was sparking, but that doesn't mean the actual TDC of the physical piston. I can look into the idle advance.
I am matching up the firing of the coils between the OEM and RusEFI. Still that leaves me not knowing if it's 1 or 6 and uses wasted spark like you said.

In my last attached image, I notice that coil 7 doesn't register anything on the sniffer tab. Does that have anything to do with it staying high?

[Nehrenholz]

I found this tidbit of info:

http://www.ls1.com/forums/f6/stock-timing-151136/

[AndreyB]

In my last attached image, I notice that coil 7 doesn't register anything on the sniffer tab. Does that have anything to do with it staying high?

Definitely. Sniffer tab data is being populated by the same logic which toggles the pins, so nothing on #7 is disturbing.

[AndreyB]

I am a bit puzzled. With my self-stimulation this does not happen, the difference between you and me is that I am playing what we think is trigger shape and you have the true signal. So it must be an issue with trigger shape definition? Do you see any differences between your real pattern and my simulated pattern?

Can you please record a longer sensor sniffer = trigger and attach a larger .zipped log file? But to be honest I do not understand what kind of an issue with the shape would have such effect. Can you try with shorter ignition dwell just to see if the issue would disappear or not?

[AndreyB]

Sleep time for me, sorry I have no ideas right now

[kb1gtt]

TDC can also be obtained by putting a depth gauge in the cyl 1 spark plug hole then rotating the engine until they guage has peaked out which indicates you have reached the top. Once you have reached the top, you then put a mark on the fly wheel, crank pulley, or what ever you can see with a timing gun. I've seen people use a file to make a small nick in the metal, as well as I've seen people use a white paint pen.

If your plug is at an odd angle and it's hard to get the gauge in, I've seen people modify a spark plug such that they can put a length of clear hose on the spark plug. Then they eyeball and get the engine at say -10 to -20 degrees from TDC, then they put some oil in the spark plug hole. Then they install this spark plug hose thing. Then they rotate the engine until the fluid goes up the hose and they rotate until the fluid is at it's peak level. That's when your at TDC.

Gueage like this

s-l500.jpg

found here
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Universal-3D-Deluxe-Magnetic-Base-Holder-For-Dial-Test-Indicator-w-Warranty-/172010407341?hash=item280c9e85ad:g:C00AAOSwBahU7yJe

[Nehrenholz]

Here's the current tune. I Think I changed the ignition settings to Batched/ Two wire: True... since the last tune I posted. Hopefully that didnt change too much. I'll give the engine another run tomorrow for longer to get that tirgger shape. Your simulated signal looks the same as mine.

That oil trick in the cylinder to measure TDC is pretty smart. My engine is pretty simple to find TDC and mark the damper, I was just hoping I didn't need too lol.

[Nehrenholz]

Alright, I found the Idle timing to be roughly 19° Before TDC

[AndreyB]

What about a larger zipped log file with sensor sniffer set to 'trigger'? We still have this coil #7 issue which I still do not understand.

[Nehrenholz]

Coming up, How long would you like the file (in seconds)?

[AndreyB]

Let's begin from 60 seconds

[Nehrenholz]

Updated Firmware, Ran, and still same issue.

[Nehrenholz]

I swapped the pinouts for Coil seven (PD9) with coil 6 (PE8) and still the same issue, just on PE8 this time.

Edit: This one also activated what looks like coil #4 for about 2 seconds in the beginning and then stopped it. In the image it added coil #4 to the engine sniffer page.

[AndreyB]

I've just noticed that your config says "4 stroke with cam sensor". We are currently trying to run without cam sensor, let's change this trigger setting and hope for the better?

[Nehrenholz]

Yes that did it. I can check all the signals for consistency with OEM and then it should be able to offset to run correct timing? It looks as if it is running the correct timing sequence over a 720 degree cycle. Does this seem right for Batch/two wire config? I would have expected it to be this way for sequential, individual coil, maybe i just don't know the jargon.

[AndreyB]

Oh thanks god, operator error and not my fault. These ones are my favorite, sorry

batched as in "grouped" an we see this on the picture - two injectors are running in parallel, this looks good.

wasted spark is just a jargon for batched/group ignition and we DO NOT see this on the picture - on the picture we see individual ignition. something is not right. in your configuration you've posted ignition was set to 'individual', we need 'wasted' and I believe you have mentioned you've set it this way?

sorry for the mess. once you start your engine you will improve the wiki and add an explanation for this, will you?...

[Nehrenholz]

Awesome! Sorry about that, I had that set way back when I though we were using it.

To eliminate the ambiguity Ive attached a picture of the engine settings as they are today.

Yeah I can take care of that wiki, I haven't done that before, so bare with me

[Nehrenholz]

At 198° offset the ignition is where it should be.

[AndreyB]

the page which we need would say 'knowing cam position allows us to calculate stroke for each cylinder. Crank on the other hajd rotates twice faster and for each crank position there are two cycles in which any given cylinder could be, thus individual ignition is not possible if one does not have or cannot use cam sensor'

[Nehrenholz]

Well, this is where I'm stuck now. I want the output to fire on the 2 parallel cylinders but it was firing in a sequential order when configured as Batch /two wire / individual coils. When I changed to Batch / two wire / wasted it only sent signals to 4 cylinders. I want to use each driver for each cylinder. Is this another one of operator error, or is that the correct settings.

[AndreyB]

That's not operator error, that's poor usability this time

I've just re-arranged the fields a little bit and added the border to highlight grouping - without the border your brain is totally ignoring the second "two wire" field, right? you need two "true" values, one in each "two wire" setting since these are two separate settings. With the displayed configuration I get that I believe you are looking for.

[Nehrenholz]

Wahooo! It started right up!

your brain is totally ignoring the second "two wire" field, right?

Yeah, kept looking right past it. How do I install the updated TS fields? I started a new project with a recent rusefi.ini file.

I've attached the image that finally matches yours

[Nehrenholz]

[video][/video]

[AndreyB]

sweet, one little step!

http://rusefi.com/build_server/readme.txt
http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Basic_Engine_Theory

[omalacko]

I just want to make sure before I get this part that the 64 pin connector that RUSEFI sells is the same as the one on the frankenso board