Wait, your trying to use 60-2 trigger setting with a wheel that does not give a pattern for 60-2?
I think this may be the route of your random sparking behaviour.
I have a feeling this may need a special trigger setting of that high tooth filing into a double -2 gap.
Otherwise your trigger is really 60+1-1.
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:05 pm
by JPh
@Andrey my purpose is to share on the forum some useful information for other users. For the discussion about the results I think slack is better and only report the result on the forum. Otherwise there will be some posts with erroneous conclusions which can lead others into errors.
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:10 pm
by JPh
@Simon Matthew posted some information about this patern and the use of 60 - 2. He thought it could work. I restarted the tests because I'm in the way to use MRE intensively on the car and use free lock down time to prepare tuning phase. What is curious, I started the car last year with MRE had had not such a problem.
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:06 pm
by AndreyB
In my opinion it's currently very unclear what exactly is being shared and what kind of help or collaboration (if any) is desired.
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:30 pm
by JPh
What has been shared :
Flywheel patern for these engines.
VR signal obtained with this unusual pattern
OEM TDC position relative to sync point
Behavior of MRE with some seetings available
What help needed :
Does the anormal first tooth make any trouble in timing accuracy?
Does this wheel need a special trigger decoder?
Understand engine sniffer
in rusEFI please execute "enable trigger_details" command which would get you more or less following text in "messages" area while you would be cranking
2021-04-07_16_24_50_902: EngineState: TRG rpm=1378 time=66 index=0: gap=0.122 expected from 6.375 to 14.000 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_50_912: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_50_912: EngineState: TRG rpm=1378 time=66 index=0: gap=1.557 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_50_982: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_50_982: EngineState: TRG rpm=1378 time=66 index=0: gap=0.635 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_50_982: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
please post your "enable trigger_details" results here
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:19 am
by JPh
I tried both 60-2 trigger patterns but didn't make same measurements for both so no conclusions for now.
I have a complaint about the visual of the vw pattern picture : it looks like the renault pattern but is not because it's high long tooth only.
Will try to give you sniffer results this evening when coming back from work.
There is a complaint about "visual of the vw pattern picture : it looks like the renault pattern but is not because it's high long tooth only."
Are there any other complaints?
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:24 am
by JPh
About the "complaint" : for newcomers it's difficult to figure out the relationship between physical teeth form, analog VR signal obtained, digital crank signal, decoded crank signal. That's why I showed the question that way in the post. For you it's easy but not for us dumb humans. So I just wanted to put your attention that a picture which is between these different things will be misleading for people who have to manage a non conventional trigger pattern. Your effort to create that picture is useful but not perfect yet.
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:27 am
by JPh
"gap in range" so the decoding can work and reset tooth number correctly?
If that's not the problem, is it the anormal first tooth wideness? ?
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:20 pm
by JPh
top line of sniffer.png
Can you explain the meaning of the numbers of the top line of sniffer please ?
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:22 am
by AndreyB
event index within cycle
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:24 am
by JPh
This is engine sniffer on trigger self stimulator (to compare with above sniffer data) :
sniffre on stimulator.png
Some observations :
TDC is correctly aligned with event 28 so tooth 14
Spark is correctly on 0 °
Extract from message text at sync zone for stimulator :
message at sync zone.png
Extract from message text at sync zone from engine data :
Sync zone on engine.png
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:57 am
by JPh
In the trigger decoder is it possible to skip event 1 and 2 (tooth 1)and to discribe the wheel as a 57 - 3 teeth wheel ?
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:47 pm
by AndreyB
Realistically there are two people who can help here - Matt and myself.
I would not have time to thing about this until around April 30th. You best shot until April 30th is to chase Matt on Slack.
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:01 pm
by JPh
Thanks for your honest reply.
Perhaps I'm not in a hurry, because I sorted out most of the problems (these problems were entirely my fault I'm ashame). The good thing about doing idiotic things is that they force me to work. I learned to use engine sniffer and console, both great tools if you want to understand what's going on.
Next I will run some tests to mesure accuracy with the un-perfect decoder, I bet it will largely sufficient for me to progress in my build. Will report when done.
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:11 pm
by JPh
top line of sniffer.png
Why are there two lines for angle ?
Why are they sometimes n/a ?
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:35 pm
by AndreyB
Angles from sync point.
If there are no sync points in sight it would be n/a
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 7:02 pm
by JPh
Some timing gun tests at low mid and high RPM.
0 degree advance and 0 degree offset.
The timing drifts with RPM.
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 12:22 pm
by JPh
Oscillograms in the same conditions :
low rpm trigger.png
mid rpm trigger.png
high rpm trigger.png
Curiously, there is not as much drift in the signals as in the videos.
Timing gun artifact ?
Re: Renault special 60 -2 flywheel on microRusEFI
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 4:14 am
by JPh
Question about ignition scheduler :
Does it calculate the ignition point using the crank event just before the aimed advance angle ?