cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

[AndreyB]

@Maxi has shared http://www.rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=388&p=16466#p16464 a cool idea for cylinder pressure sensor option:

modern diesel glow plugs have pressure sensor build into them. For example Audi A3 VW Golf Glow Plug w/ Pressure Sensor OEM BERU 03L 905 061 F

Smart glow plug part number 059905061H 03L905061F 03L905061E 2009+ VAG TDI
Connector 04L971785

Thread: x?

More info: http://www.beru.com/download/produkte/fachaufsatz_psg_en.pdf (now gone?) we have https://rusefi.com/forum/download/file.php?id=5050

Vout=(0,115+0,004P)*Vs
P - bars
Vs - 5v +-5%

Time to drill a new hole in the Neon head

[AndreyB]

[AndreyB]

DO IT! Where on a neon sohc without hitting water jacket...

SOHC
Not really ready to drill my DOHC Miata head. Time to buy DOHC v12 something

[abecedarian]

One thought might be to open up the spark plug boss and fabricate an insert that could thread in which would supply a "tap" out to the pressure sensor while retaining the spark plug.

Depending on the spark plug design- insulator length and such, might even be able to drill and tap the spark plug itself to provide a port for a pressure sensor.

... or not.

[Abricos]

It is a very expensive pressure sensor for 2000 bar it's cost 500$ ...I can not find something cheaper ...

[kb1gtt]

The ebay link in the first post is $25 usd.

[Abricos]

[3gAccord]

This may be a bit old thread... But why add a sensor? Why not do coil on plug with ion sensing? It'd be much simpler in the long run than head mods

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[3gAccord]

In short, using the plug gap as a sensor. It's definitely complicated but not impossible magic.

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[3gAccord]

Seems like it'd be the cheapest route. Bosch actually makes a module that connects to their coil on plug units. It'd take some interfacing but it allows very accurate knock prevention in higher end vehicles these days

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[AndreyB]

Bosch actually makes a module that connects to their coil on plug units.

Sounds like you want to start a new topic on ion sensing since this topic is on cheap cylinder pressure sensor option...

[AldoQ]

Hi
i like to test this sensor, $30 in ebay its ok to experiment, maybe the sensor attached to stainless steel tubing then welded to spark plug
best regrads

[Abricos]

Hi
i like to test this sensor, $30 in ebay its ok to experiment, maybe the sensor attached to stainless steel tubing then welded to spark plug
best regrads

You need pressure sensor for 2000 bar

[stefanst]

Hi
i like to test this sensor, $30 in ebay its ok to experiment, maybe the sensor attached to stainless steel tubing then welded to spark plug
best regrads

You need pressure sensor for 2000 bar

I don't think so. Afaik peak cylinder pressure in gasoline engines is usually 1000psi and lower. So maybe 70bar.

[Abricos]

Oppss sorry not bar ... 2000psi ...
For basic engine ...

Look PDF

[AldoQ]

hi
the beru pressure sensor is for 200 bar
regards

[AndreyB]

hi
to spark plug just to tune the spark map , is possible ?
regards

what exactly are you asking about? is it possible to get the sensor somehow into the cylinder? I believe no one here has such experience.

is it possible to read the value from the sensor and display it in the rusEfi console? that would be an easy change, that would be similar to how you can see MAP sensor reason within one engine cycle.

[AldoQ]

if i find the way to use the glow plug to read the pressure in the cylinder, the signal can be used to tune the spark map?

[AldoQ]

Ok
Im waiting for the sensor off eBay 25 Plus Shipping to México

Enviado desde mi Z812 mediante Tapatalk

[andreika]

To get an idea of what it does:

ion-sensing-module-diagram.gif

It processes an analog ion signal directly from coils and outputs 2 digital signals for ECU: Knock detection & C.Q. (combustion quality).

[KLAS]

maybe
https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/35189/Ionization-Module-55352173/

SAAB 55352173
SAAB: 9-3 2005-11

yes, that's the one

and i found this company http://www.sensata.com/sensors/automotive-pressure-sensor-cpos.htm
looks like they make pressure only sensors for IC engines, don't know how much they are

[Abricos]

VW Audi Glow plug conector with wire harness for the "smart" glow plugs used on the 2.0L Common-Rail
OEM Part Number: 03L971785A? or maybe 04L971785?

Same connector pictured with and without end plastic cover

GP_zpsfb13bb6b.jpg

701d68114ad1844a25b3e8f5ab5e.jpeg

Screenshot_20190810-113827.jpg

Screenshot_20190810-113056.jpg

[Abricos]

in first post link (it seems to me very important) does not work as the web site does not exist ...

New Bitmap Image.bmp

CR_Glow_Plug_Pressure_Sensor_Specs.jpg

CR_Glow_Plug_Dynamic_Performance_Comparison.jpg

CR_Glow_Plug_Signal_Filtering.jpg

CR_Glow_Plug_Section_-_1024x768.jpg

CRGP_-_All_800_-_1024x768.jpg

CRGP_-_Tip_6400_-_1024x768.jpg

YCGnJFN.jpg

XZfGAL8.jpg

CR glow plug pinout:
1. power (3v if I'm reading this bentley notations correctly)
2. signal to ecu
3. ground
4. glow from J179 automatic glow time control module

[Abricos]

It looks like several companies are working together on the same sensor - pictured as separate pressure sensor on the right, but in reality integrated into smart diesel glow plug.
https://hirschmann-automotive.com
https://www.hidria.com
https://www.beruparts.eu
https://www.borgwarner.com

New Bitmap Image.bmp

Attached a PDF about smart spark plug which is another option.

Pressure_Model_6117B.pdf

[AndreyB]

FB says "The Skyactiv X reportedly features realtime individual cylinder pressure monitoring. A pressure sensor is mounted in the cylinder. US Patent 9,719,441 shows a lot of detail on this subject."

This engine is not available in US yet and they might have only started selling it https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27750433/mazda-skyactiv-x-engine-europe-mpg/

[AndreyB]

Some dimensions and installation example see https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1630&p=34911#p34911

[AndreyB]

@andreika is wondering if Vauxhall / opel 55577669 / opel 2081555 harness uses the same connector. Sweet thing about the Opel harness is that we get 4 plugs for about $20 used!

Opel Astra J 2010-2017
Opel Insignia 2008-2017
Opel Zafira C 2013-2019

GM glow plug part numbers 55579436 and 55590467, opel PN 1214087

Thread Size M9x1.0mm
Spanner Size 12 mm. "Spanner" means wrench in British

[AndreyB]

Maybe we have the first video of the sensor output? Very unclear

The formula in first message says voltage goes up with pressure, why do we have such a clear drop in voltage? That's if we have randomly chosen good trigger setting on oscilloscope.



update:

[puff]

100ns per division? so, the drop duration is even below 100ns? do you know what's inside that sensor? it's design? may be, there is a certain ciruitry there which causes that drop?
it's a cylinder sensor, which means - the measurements should have a certain pattern (according to engine cycle)?
I'd try to figure out the duration of the whole cycle at your idle and make the time scale of the scope match it.

[kb1gtt]

Can you capture a picture with a sync pulse at TDC?