mck1117 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:25 pm
Welcome to rusEFI!
Thanks a lot!
mck1117 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:25 pm
Zeiss wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:48 pm
Then I came up with rusEFI, by chance I saw a video on Youtube with a M73. Cool, I want to have that! The specs of the Proteus read like it was built exactly for the M70, a dream. Thanks a lot for that!
Hah, I designed it to work with my V8, but threw in some extra hardware so a V12 would be easy too
As you can see, it was a very good idea! A V12 only needs a few more outputs than a V8. The M70 is actually a double M20. The M73 is a bit different, more advanced.
mck1117 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:25 pm
Zeiss wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:48 pm
My goal is to have the engine with full sequential ignition and fuel injection, so that's probably not a problem. I want to use NGK 48042 COP, the Dwell times (1.8ms @ 12v and 1.3ms @ 16v) are known. They are 5v TTL COPs. There is only one potentiometer on the gas pedal, not two opposing potentiometers as on the M73. There are no stepper motors in the throttle bodies, but normal motors which can be controlled with an H-bridge. TPS is also only one potentiometer per throttle body, not two counter-rotating potentiometers as in the M73.
Hmm, single sensors on the pedal/throttles is actually a problem. We require dual redundant sensors for safety, as do all OEMs these days. It should be pretty easy to replace them with newer throttles/pedal that have dual sensors (six total: two per throttle, two for the pedal).
Okay, that sounds less nice. Is it not possible to connect the respective signals to both inputs and thus suggest to the Proteus that there are two sensors? The system with one sensor has worked absolutely flawlessly for over 30 years in a lot of vehicles.
On the other hand, I can take the pedal sensor from the M73, it has two counter-rotating potentiometers in it, that would fit.
The throttle bodies from the M73 would also fit very well, have two counter-rotating potentiometers. The problem here will be the control, they have a stepper motor inside...
Proteus has an H-bridge control, correct?
The problem is, we have MOT. If anything on the engine doesn't look stock, they start asking questions.... so the easier way is to use the original (M70 or M73) parts. The throttle bodies of M70 and the M73 look very similar.
mck1117 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:25 pm
Zeiss wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:48 pm
MAF: Can I keep my digital HFM7 or do I need analog MAFs (suitable HFM5)?
It's actually preferred to ditch the MAFs all together, and install one MAP sensor per bank.
What is the reason for this? The advantage of MAF is that you can see the exact air mass. The evaluation of a HFM7 is very simple.I have used for my HFM7 input capture timer and calculated the air mass from it (using a cubic polynomial but resolved to Hornet, no exponentiation, but only multiplication). With this value, you can then continue to reach (injection amount) and do not need any tables.
mck1117 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:25 pm
Speed density is currently better supported on rusEFI.
For speed density I need two MAP sensors. This should not be a problem.
mck1117 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:25 pm
Zeiss wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:48 pm
Lambda probes: Proteus does not have a controller for a wideband probe, correct? That means I need two controllers? How are they connected, via CAN or analog 0-5v?
Correct, no internal controller on Proteus. You can do either CAN or analog - the current preferred wideband controller is the AEM X-Series, either inline (no gauge) or gauge version. They control the sensor the same and emit the same CAN information, only difference is whether you want a gauge face to look at.
Nice, is there a DBC file for this?
mck1117 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:25 pm
Zeiss wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:48 pm
how are the throttle bodies synchronized? If at all.
Right now, they aren't. Each is independently calibrated against the stops, but there's no active balancing today. It is worth wiring both load measurements (MAP/MAF) up to the ECU, though, as this is something we could/will add eventually.
That sounds good. The Motronic balances the throttle bodies via MAFs.You bring the engine up to a certain rpm (I think it was 2000 rpm), the Motronic then measures the amount of air at the two MAFs and adjusts the throttle bodies so that the values match (with a small deviation).
mck1117 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:25 pm
Zeiss wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:48 pm
do I need one (or two?) camshaft sensor for full sequential ignition or is the sensor on the crankshaft enough?
You need one crank sensor, plus one cam sensor. You can toss the second crank sensor of course, as that's not necessary when running a single ECU.
What kind of trigger do I need on the camshaft then? A half moon (like the M73) or simply a tooth?
Thank you for the explanation!
stefanst wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:32 pm
Hallo Heinrich,
Welcome to rusEFI. It looks like you should be able to rusEFI both your V12s without any trouble.
I will leave answering your questions to the better qualified people here, but from what I can see, your project should be fairly straightforward.
Hello Stefan, Thanks a lot!
Yes, it all sounds super good. With Megasquirt it was mostly, don't go... or forget it....
stefanst wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:32 pm
I am a bit surprised though that you are allowed to run two BMW V12 in Stuttgart. I would have expected an angry mob would have lynched you years ago now.
Stefan
Well, there are some corners in Stuttgart where you shouldn't park with such cars, especially not with the 8 Series. It can happen that it has a few more scratches or dents. But it's actually very relaxed here, even though we have a green government in Baden-Württemberg.
Hello Andrey, yours looks a bit demolished.
Sorry.
Here is mine:
- 001.jpg (284.27 KiB) Viewed 25059 times
It is a 2006 Individual and so called "Special Edition Exclusive carbon black / Merino gold brown".