Another V12

[Munters]

Hello

My Name is Marcel
I have my own little business where I restore Classic Cars.
I am a mechanic, but did never Install more then Pertronix or 123 Ignition programmable Distributors

Now I have a customer for my Lamborghini Espada with a 4L V12 (the same Engine like the Countach or Miura)

I will rebuild the whole car and also the engine, but not Factory like.

The Engine will have a Lamborghini Diablo Crankshaft and new Liners to bring it up to 5.7L
Because of this I will need something better then the 40mm Weber DCOEs Carbs.
So I will go with 6 45mm Jenveys Heritage DCOE (6 double =12 throats) Injection (they look like the Weber Carbs)

Now I was Googling and Googling to find a system capable of doing 12 sequential Injection and 12 sequential Ignition and found

the Proteus - Waterproof, High-feature ECU and the V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas Topic
in this Forum and went through a lot of reading.

Im quite impressed with the Hardware.

Now my question
Is the HW fast enough to wind the engine up to 10500RPM (max Power at ~ 9700RPM) and still have it sequential with barometric sealevel adjustements?

I am from Switzerland and the car will be driven also on Classic Hillclimb "races" and there of course its the best to be able to use the whole
power range of the engine.

But before I start with this Project, I will take my Datsun 240Z Inline 6 with measured 274 BHP as a test mule to understand the Proteus before I go V12.
This engine has its Higest Power at 7600RPM and falls flat at around 8200rpm.
I will also Install the Jenveys to play with it.

Thanks for your inputs and keep up the nice work

[AndreyB]

HW limitation is not RPM but RPM*tooth count. We are confident that we can do 11000 rpm * 60 tooth trigger

At the moment Proteus are often shipped without baro sensor due to chip shortage drama. Overall there is a big of longer, 4-6 week lead time on Proteus.

[mck1117]

HW limitation is not RPM but RPM*tooth count. We are confident that we can do 11000 rpm * 60 tooth trigger

11k with 60 teeth is probably pushing it. A safer place to be is a 24 or 36 tooth wheel, for example, a 24t at 12k is similar to a 60t at only 4800 rpm.

[mck1117]

At the moment Proteus are often shipped without baro sensor due to chip shortage drama.

You can, however, of course install an external baro sensor. Even just leaving a second MAP sensor flapping in the breeze (or connected between filter and throttle) would work fine.

[mk e]

Now I have a customer for my Lamborghini Espada with a 4L V12


....The Engine will have a Lamborghini Diablo Crankshaft and new Liners to bring it up to 5.7L

...wind the engine up to 10500RPM (max Power at ~ 9700RPM


....So I will go with 6 45mm Jenveys Heritage DCOE (6 double =12 throats) Injection (they look like the Weber Carbs)

Ha! Not just another V12, but another Italian V12 that goes to 11 (https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1499)

Mind if I ask a bit about the engine? If my math is right then between the displacement and rpm increases it will be trying to pump 70-80% more air (meaning 70-80% more hp), and that is just to maintain stock VE (volumetric efficiency, how ell you're filling the cylinders). What else are you doing? Head work? Cams? headers?

The TBs seem on the small side. My engine has similar specs (5.4L, 9000-9500 peak hp target) and on my heads a 48mm TB was about a 10% flow restriction.....I'm at 54mm (ducati 999 TBs) and that is around a 1% restriction. But I have pretty good flowing heads with modest cam duration so TB flow matters, if you are going the other wat with ore modest head flow and long cam duration I guess 46mm TBs might be fine. Remember though that with EFI you really can't go too big as the only thing that happens is the hp stops going up unlike with oversize carb where you lose the whole bottom end. Big TBs do make off idle power surge harder to control...the rpm wants to explode because a small change in throttle position is a big change in air flow but progressive linkage or electronic throttle with programable pedal to TB ratio fixes that.

[Munters]

This with the Throttles is a god input. You're right, I did not calculate or Talk to Jenvey yet, what the good size would be.
The max size Jenvey has is 48mm. Anyways quite early in the Project. Of course is there quite a bit to not choke the engine down.

The main reason this engine is built the way it will be build is the existance of this Diablo Crank. Lucky me.
The head will be ported, with bigger lighter valves and stronger valve springs and reteiners. The Cams are based on Countach Cams but with a new Profile with a bigger Lift and longer duration.

All this changes are based on the knowledges of a guy who rebuilds, tunes and upgrades Lamborghini Engines since over 25 years.
I will just assemble the Engine after he does the work. (I can't work this magic, never done it on such engines)

The headers will choke the engine down but will stay most probably Original. The iedea of this Engine is to have more grunt lower down but beig able to rev it up to pass the 10K.

[Munters]

Wau Mark im in your 168 page Thread at gemellocattivo You are an artist...

[mk e]

Wau Mark im in your 168 page Thread at gemellocattivo You are an artist...

and that is why nothing is ever actually finished

Can't wait to see what you do with the lambo engine!

More low end plus more top end in basically the holy grail of engine building I only have simulations to go by but in my case I should sort of have that because I went from 3.0 to 5.4 liter so have though the 5.4 is soft on the bottom its still much stronger than the 3.0 it replaced. I flowed the heads to 70% more flow and 50% higher velocity and with cams that are relatively modest duration (242@.050") and tri-y headers tuned at a around 8500ish I tried to hold up the midrange...again, not sure I achieved the goals but I tried. Check your PM.