Proteus v12 club

[E30Wizzard]

hey guys,
new to RusEFI, i also have an M73, mine is destined for an e30 touring swap.
Whats the first step for getting the Proteus board made? can i buy an assembled board, or will i have to have a bulk set made, and assemble my own?
Also can i directly run both Throttle controls through RusEFI?
i plan on a very mild twin turbo application, maybe max 7-8 psi, how well does the rusefi setup work for boosted applications?
Thanks in advance!
Pic of my m73 sitting on my shop floor for attention

[AndreyB]

top of https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Proteus for availability

Proteus would control two DC ETBs but the M73 ETBs are not DC motors, those are weird steppers. We have no plans to support stepper ETBs, you would have to convert your M73 to some more modern ETB.

Do you have more of money, time or soldering skills? At $400 per unit I can setup a Proteus run but maybe you can do it yourself which would be my preference?

[mck1117]

Proteus availability depends a bit on how soon you need one. I did one batch about a month and a half ago that satisfied the demand for a while, but I suspect I'll run another batch eventually.

[bill]

hey guys,
new to RusEFI, i also have an M73, mine is destined for an e30 touring swap.
Whats the first step for getting the Proteus board made? can i buy an assembled board, or will i have to have a bulk set made, and assemble my own?
Also can i directly run both Throttle controls through RusEFI?
i plan on a very mild twin turbo application, maybe max 7-8 psi, how well does the rusefi setup work for boosted applications?
Thanks in advance!
Pic of my m73 sitting on my shop floor for attention

i put Nissan altima v-6 throttle bodies (hitachi) on my V12
got them at the junkyard for $30 each
they almost fit-- i had to take a drill bit and move the mounting holes on the throttle bodies a bit --
and yes you can run both throttle bodies .
and yes you can run RusEfi it with a turbo... i have 2 turbos waiting to be installed
we are currently trying to figure out a good Coil on Plug setup for the v-12 -- i have some GM Yukon coils, and also some Saab 9-3 coils...

IMG_20200610_094838311.jpg

[bill]

Pic of my m73 sitting on my shop floor for attention

where are you located?

[jamesuk]

hey guys,
new to RusEFI, i also have an M73, mine is destined for an e30 touring swap.
Whats the first step for getting the Proteus board made? can i buy an assembled board, or will i have to have a bulk set made, and assemble my own?
Also can i directly run both Throttle controls through RusEFI?
i plan on a very mild twin turbo application, maybe max 7-8 psi, how well does the rusefi setup work for boosted applications?
Thanks in advance!
Pic of my m73 sitting on my shop floor for attention

i put Nissan altima v-6 throttle bodies (hitachi) on my V12
got them at the junkyard for $30 each
they almost fit-- i had to take a drill bit and move the mounting holes on the throttle bodies a bit --
and yes you can run both throttle bodies .
and yes you can run RusEfi it with a turbo... i have 2 turbos waiting to be installed
we are currently trying to figure out a good Coil on Plug setup for the v-12 -- i have some GM Yukon coils, and also some Saab 9-3 coils...

IMG_20200610_094838311.jpg

hi looking at converting my m73 to manual throttle bodies , do you know what ones i can use ?

[AndreyB]

hi looking at converting my m73 to manual throttle bodies , do you know what ones i can use ?

Why?

Proteus would give you VAG ETBs which would work nice with a VAG pedal.

Brand new page https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/HOWTO-M73-v12-on-Proteus - stay tuned, it would either become much better in the next 8 days or not.

[jamesuk]

yeah i suppose so , well one has broke and i have been advised for ages to do it as it would be easier for ecu

[bill]

The BMW /Siemens ETB is basically unusable. Look at the 15wires coming out of the side. Too much! The Hitachi unit fits without a adapter plate. And is modern enough to work. VW have 3bolts.so need an adapter for the BMW 4hole intake manifold

[jamesuk]

WHAT OTHER OPTIONS DO I HAVE FOR THROTTLE BODIES AS Nissan altima v-6 throttle bodies ARE A FORTUNE IN THE UK ?

[AndreyB]

WHAT OTHER OPTIONS DO I HAVE FOR THROTTLE BODIES AS Nissan altima v-6 throttle bodies ARE A FORTUNE IN THE UK ?

CAPS IN THE INTERNET MEAN SHOUTING ARE YOU SHOUTING?!

See https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Vault-Of-Electronic-Throttle-Bodies-ETB

We seem to like Hitachi SERA576 which is used for instance on "Nissan X-Trail T30 01-07 2.5 Petrol Throttle body Bodie RME60-06 SERA576-01" you have to have twice 30 GBP?

[jamesuk]

lol my apologies

[AndreyB]

Can I please have my trophy for first dual ETB v12 everything using Proteus?

https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=37701#p37701

[bill]

Can I please have my trophy for first dual ETB v12 everything using Proteus?

your reward will be in Heaven!

[bill]

For those people who are having trigger wheel problems-- This company machines a 60-2 pattern into flywheels ( for saabs) . maybe they will do your flywheel also? or get a local shop to cut the pattern into your existing flywheel. Use a volvo VR pickup with this style of machined flywheel.

. https://www.modernclassicsaab.com/products/trionic-5-t5-conversion-flywheel?taxon_id=20

[bill]

best practices on GROUNDING.

Make Sure

the coil body is grounded to the block.
the coil power Neg ground is grounded to the battery neg terminal .
the coil signal neg ground goes to the proteus ground wire.
the proteus fat ground wire is grounded to the battery Neg terminal.
ANY sensor neg ground wires go to the proteus ground wires.

don't ground the proteus board body to the car body. with screws, cases, etc.

make sure any sensor shield wires are only grounded to either the proteus ground wire. or the engine block/chassis/batt neg terminal. NOT both.

more to come...

[bill]

update on 1995 750i E38 m73 v12 engine to manual transmission -
I have sourced a bmw transmission and other parts from a 2002 540i -- V8
Getrag 420g
and the following FIT the v12

Flywheel fits ( nine bolt holes, dual mass) the flywheel also works with the 60-2 crank sensor on the Getrag 420g and the Starter motor on the V12. Note-- the crank sensor is about 60 degrees different from the original v12 tranny sensor position .

Clutch and pressure plate from 540i fits on the flywheel

The bellhousing is different, slightly. it is about the same diameter.
But the starter motor mountings are set up for a 90 deg engine in the v8, and 60 deg engine in the v12. see picture.
I will need to align the tranny starter hump and bolt holes with the starter and bolt holes on the v12 block. That will give me 2 holes to start this process. Then drill/weld new holes in raw bellhousing for the v12 block bolt locations. More news when that happens. But should be doable.

There is a ton of crazy stuff out there on the internet .... about how to fit manual trannies to the V12 block. Cutting off the bmw automatic bellhousing and welding onto chevy trans, making adapter plates for bellhousing and crank bolts and flywheel and starters, etc...
This looks to be the quickest, cleanest V12 manual 6 speed conversion-- short of the unobtainium original v12 Getrag in the 850i.

[bill]

V-8 flywheel on V12 block

IMG_20201008_102139829.jpg

[bill]

starter of V12 with V8 flywheel
note 2 different TDC 60-2 crank sensors with different flywheels

IMG_20201008_102152554.jpg

[bill]

the gear from the 540i

IMG_20201008_094917918_HDR.jpg

[bill]

540i clutch pedal up close

IMG_20201008_104229207.jpg

[bill]

getrag 420 bellhousing... notice the starter locations and the 90 deg cylinder banks bolt holes

IMG_20201003_091950903_HDR.jpg

[bill]

and the V12 bellhousing bolt pattern --notice the 60 cylinder bank bolt pattern ...

IMG_20201003_092009838.jpg

[bill]

bellhousing {TOP} and block pattern {BOTTOM} mockups

IMG_20201006_123838858.jpg

[bill]

IMG_20201006_123851092.jpg

[mk e]

You're not planning to do this from a cardboard template are you? you'll destroy the pilot bearing, clutch and maybe trand in short order if that is the plan

The centers need to be aligned.....you MIGHT get away with a 0.005" error but much more and things will go bad pretty fast. I put a V8 trans on a V12 by welding on a new flange and I like where you're going....but you NEED a milling machine to do it.

[mck1117]

If the dowel pins line up, you get longer dowel pins that have a loose fit in the adapter plate, then the adapter plate actually doesn't matter. The dowel pins provide alignment, and bolts provide clamping.

[AndreyB]

Mark is in PA, Bill is not far from DC.

I wonder how many miles between Mark and Bill

[mk e]

If the dowel pins line up, ...

Then you are good to go and can just punch and drill the bolt holes.

I read about staring by lining up starter bolt holes and really wanted to save him from a big mistake I probably need to admit making myself when I was a young and more than a little naive

[bill]

no, i am not using a cardboard template!
i am gonna put the engine on its front, then put the tranny into the pilot bearing and see how it looks on the bolt hole/ dowel hole/ starter alignment.
Then make a decision .

what kind of transmission is that in the pic? some kind of front wheel drive setup?

You're not planning to do this from a cardboard template are you? you'll destroy the pilot bearing, clutch and maybe trand in short order if that is the plan

The centers need to be aligned.....you MIGHT get away with a 0.005" error but much more and things will go bad pretty fast. I put a V8 trans on a V12 by welding on a new flange and I like where you're going....but you NEED a milling machine to do it.