Subaru triggers.

[SubaruLT]

Hi. At the moment I am trying to run my subaru on RusEfi. Before that, I ran it on Speeduino. In the future, I plan to run more Subaru on stand-alone. So I like to get some answers about Subaru triggers.
1. How does subaru 7/6 trigger work? Does it run reliably? On Speeduino this trigger creates problems. On some other stand-alone ECUs, it does not work well either. So how about RusEfi?
2. The EZ30 trigger is the same pattern as on the newer 4cylinder EJ subaru but a little smaller in diameter. Does it make any difference? At the moment I run the 4-cylinder EJ engine on an EZ30 trigger with a -80 trigger advance angle. But there are some misfires. Maybe it's because of the 6-cylinder trigger?
3. In the software trigger setting I found extra two SVX options. Subaru SVX crank 1. And Subaru SVX VVT. But SVX doesn't have VVT. Maybe it's EZ30 VVT?
4. How RusEfi control VVT on two bank engines? Does it read and adjust the angle separately for both banks? Or does it adjust both banks with one output?
5. Maybe it is worth swapping the VR sensor to the Hall sensor to reach maximum durability? And maybe even a regular 60/2 trigger?

[AndreyB]

Have you seen https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2608? He is one of the happiest Subaru users at the moment.

1. The only unreliable rusEFI trigger setup right now is specific 3 cylinder Mitsubishi engine with specific trigger shape, all other triggers work great to the best of my knowledge.

2. diameter does not matter

3. Decoder VVT also means cam sensor decoding for us.

4. rusEFI controls up to four VVT shafts pretty independently - only limitation both intake cams have to be same trigger shape, and both exhaust cams would be (different) same shape.

[SubaruLT]

2. So the EZ30 6-cylinder trigger should work with no problem on the 4-cylinder EJ?

[AndreyB]

Please try and post tune with logs afterwards, that's the only way community would gain the answer. Trigger flexibility is one of the bulletproof areas of rusEFI

[WOOL]

Hello ! Some Subaru triggers are similar to the ez30 trigger. Modern fb16,20 motors have the same skip -2 and sector -2 -2 consecutive to each other, I think that with the EZ30 profile trigger errors will occur, but this is not certain. I advise you to try the 36-2-2-2 trigger, it is more universal and should index your trigger correctly. Try launching the console and look at the shape of your trigger. Take a screenshot and write to this thread, we’ll try to figure it out.

[SubaruLT]

It's this trigger with no cam sensor. Same tooth pattern as EZ30. Tunerstudio high-speed logger and rusefi console confirm it. After comparing it to the factory manual I found a -75/80 degree TDC offset.


But it https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/All-Supported-Triggers#subaru 36-2-2-2 trigger is shown incorrectly. And if I remember correctly, I try to use it in settings and I can't start the engine at all. At first look, it looks like it's shown two rotations of real triggers. But tooth numbers are not correct to.

PS. Need to figure out how to upload a photo.

[AndreyB]

Please post a log file see https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/HOWTO-upload-log

in your opinion what is wrong this the following image? Note that it only shows VR rises not actual shape of the metal.

image.png (83.81 KiB) Viewed 26274 times

[SubaruLT]

Ez30 trigger ok. 36-2-2-2 should look the same as EZ30. But it's shown differently with much more teeth.
Ps. Upload my trigger log in a few hours.

[AndreyB]

I have no idea what is the problem we are trying to solve. No need in logs in your vehicle starts and runs.

[SubaruLT]

The car is not tuned. It just bearly starts and gets misfires. I like to understand the meaning of all kinds of settings and set them properly first
And now by doing it, I notice that EJ and EZ trigger patterns are not the same...
Both are 36-2-2-2 but the tooth number between the spaces it's not the same.
That was my mistake which confused me. I think that they are the same. Despite the difference I managed to start the engine with the EJ trigger on EZ settings



Another confusing thing is that on RusEFI 36-2-2-2 trigger is shown with two revolutions. Not one like EZ trigger.


So my next task is to start it on the proper 36-2-2-2 trigger thanks all for the help

[SubaruLT]

And TDC looks like in the wrong spot on the rusEFI trigger.

[AndreyB]

EZ230 is very specific application so we can hard-code known TDC position

36/2/2/2 is used not only on Subaru but also Daihatsu and rotary RX-8 I am not sure of TDC is same for all applications. One thing we can do is we can at least note official Subaru TDC position for specific engine once you know it for sure.

Just fixed the image under https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/5566 thank you for the defect report!

[SubaruLT]

I can't start the engine on the 36-2-2-2 trigger... With +100 trigger offset, I get +- right TDC position. But it's still jumping a few teeth back and forward with no reason. And I get only two pulses of fuel and one ignition (bath fire) at the start of the cranking and then the ignition and injections are off. By using the EZ30 trigger I get this issue only when the battery gets lower and the starter turns the engine at a lower speed.


I notice unequal spacing after missing teeth. Spacing is fine when the engine running using the EZ trigger.


Any ideas?

[AndreyB]

Please upload normal not trigger log taken at high data rate.

[SubaruLT]

I use Core 8 ECU with specific FW. But I can't upload my tune. So I just installed regular FW, set up a new tune, and did a log. https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=1287

[AndreyB]

I use Core 8 ECU with specific FW

Since you mention that please provide more details on some Core 8 - what changes are beneficial above rusefi firmware?

[AndreyB]

https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=1287

Great stuff it has all the needed data!
on the left of https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Images/triggers/trigger_TT_36_2_2_2.png expected gap ratio sequence is rendered but the log show slightly different numbers, let's use "trigger gap override" feature until we adjust the values in the source code.

Please set values like... Ops, UI seems to be broken, let me fix something quickly and get back to you.

[AndreyB]

I've repaired the UI https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/commit/86662f53021ea65d81d8641fcffa598f789a2353
and changed the default gaps https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/commit/c0f84776922546353d8242fa34979320e0330e9b

please update firmware and try again

[SubaruLT]

Ok, i try in a few days thanks

I use Core 8 ECU with specific FW

Since you mention that please provide more details on some Core 8 - what changes are beneficial above rusefi firmware?

Can't say exactly. But how I noticed output and input pins are labeled according board. Easy to identify.

[AndreyB]

Can't say exactly. But how I noticed output and input pins are labeled according board. Easter to identify.

that's totally doing using existing toolset, I really hope the authors are not wasting time on manual rename.

[SubaruLT]

Update FW and try to start it. But my starter died. Before that, I take the log when the engine cranks at low speed. Only get a few squirts of fuel at the start of the crank and that's all.
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=1288
Swap the starter and I get much faster cranking. Injector and ignition work. Adjust TDC, now it's +180 degrees, and I start the engine with no problem.
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=1289

My other question, it's possible to do something to improve low cranking speed? The point is that it's an off-road car. In longer use of the electric winch battery gets low and if I stall the engine it might be a problem to start it.

[AndreyB]

You has trigger sync error during cranking - gap settings were fine but somehow it has missed a tooth

error code CUSTOM_PRIMARY_NOT_ENOUGH_TEETH = 9003

image.png (235.77 KiB) Viewed 25975 times

Not sure if that could be wiring/hardware/sensor issue. Another area to improve starting would be adjusting starting tune.

[SubaruLT]

I used the same engine with the same sensor in another car with a speeduino. And I used to have the same problem with low battery. Factory ECU can easily crank the car but Speeduino won't start the injector at a lower cranking speed. Maybe try to use a new sensor? Subaru has black old and brown newer sensors. Can't say if they have any differences but I try to use different ones. Thanks for the help

[SubaruLT]

Some update. Have trigger error at higher rews too. 2-3k rpm and it's stopped working at all. I tried to swap the sensor, but it's stuck. Ended up with a broken sensor and timing belt off. While in here, swap it to a 7/6 trigger. Looks like working fine with no problem. So now the question. If I swap it back to 36-2-2-2 and it still gets trigger errors, does it mean that the problem is in the software? If it works okay with 7/6 it means that the sensor and wiring are ok?

[AndreyB]

Have trigger error at higher rews too.

Without "max data rate" logs I am blind.

[SubaruLT]

I forgot to take the log before taking it apart... I swap it back to 36-2-2-2 and I take a log when I have some free time it would be nice to make it run on this trigger.

[SubaruLT]

Swap it back to 36-2-2-2.
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=1293

[SubaruLT]

So, where is the problem?

[AndreyB]

Please upload normal not trigger log taken at high data rate.

Data rate is still very important for those logs. I believe that the latest one was taken not at max reads per second but 100 reads per second? Not having 80% of the data reduces my comfort by 800%.

See screenshot - looks like the tallest gap gets below 2.6 limit, please try with the following settings. I will make same change in the codebase.

javaw_oe3qGmYo42.png (153.5 KiB) Viewed 25232 times

javaw_0pm4o92OEo.png (32.92 KiB) Viewed 25232 times

[SubaruLT]

Yes, it's the default speed. I only now read about the log rate...
https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Logging-Guide
I take a new log