1995 Dodge Neon

Post by **AndreyB** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:46 am

Vanquizor wrote:so if I'm reading that right my pins are as follows:

Exactly. This remind me that I have to finish my online spreadsheet of the same essence -

kb1gtt · Post by **kb1gtt** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:14 am

Yesterday I called Vanquizor, the result was ignition events controlled by either letting the GPIO pin float, or by GND'ing 15.42mA of current via the GPIO. Here are some notes.

Per the above IGN.jpg file, he measured that with the GPIO pin floating, there was 10.71 mA passing through the 330 ohm resistor, and 1.54V at pin 3 of the J701. Then when the GPIO was GND'ed, the voltage at pin3 dropped to 0V, and the current through the 330 ohm changed to 15.42 mA. As expected when we went from float, to GND there was a spark event though two plugs.

I saw in a forum somewhere a claim that the J701 was a darlington, so I modeled it as a darlington in QUCS, which created this graphic. This graphic shows it NOT conducting when the GPO pin is GND'ed.

This graphic shows it conducting when the GPIO is shorting 15mA to GND.

The good news, is that it appears there is an internal pull down resistor, so an external one is not required. Any how, bits of progress. He's aiming to get fuel going this evening.

Post by **AndreyB** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:12 am

Noel, Jared - some great progress here!

I have implemented opendrain and opendraing_invertet modes, I have set

Code: Select all

engineConfiguration->ignitionPinMode = OM_OPENDRAIN;

in the Neon default configuration.

You would just need to download the fresh binary.

Post by **AndreyB** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:27 am

By the way, do you know anything about your coolant temperature sensor? it might be close to the 'default' values in http://rusefi.com/articles/measuring_temperature/Steinhart-Hart.shtml - measuring one resistance at one temperature should allow us to check that. if the value would be way off the common value, we would need three measurements.

Vanquizor · Post by **Vanquizor** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:33 pm

so not too much progress this week end as I was away with the family, but I did get a few hours in and cleaned up the test rig. Also upgraded it to an automotive style battery, hooked up and tested the 2nd spark driver, and added a regulated fuel system. Hopefully I'll get to injector testing this week with some help from friends of course!

For the coolant temp sensor- I actually have 2 sensors in 1 unit. The sensor that usually drives the pcm signal reads 13kohms, the one that normally drives the dash is 3.3k both taken in may garage- probably~20C

Published specs are:

PCM
*C, Ohms, *F
0, 32500, 32
20, 11830, 68
30, 7550, 86
62, 2380, 144
100, 700 , 212

factory uses a 2k2 pullup to 5V

Dash:
36F, 9080
84F, 2332
206F, 180

No idea what factory uses- it was tough to get this bit of data.

Post by **AndreyB** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:48 pm

I have added

Code: Select all

	setThermistorConfiguration(&engineConfiguration->cltThermistorConf, 0, 32500, 30, 7550, 100, 700);
	engineConfiguration->cltThermistorConf.bias_resistor = 2200;

Please let me know what resistor value you would end up with.

That's an impressive mess with some impressive progress embedded into it

I am looking forward for the updates, it would be a huge thing for me to start an engine in another country

PS: did you say you have ordered the boards from oshpark?

Vanquizor · Post by **Vanquizor** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:58 pm

boards are ordered and apparently on their way.

Vanquizor · Post by **Vanquizor** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:36 am

Boards arrived, russian if you want to PM me your address i'll get one off to you.

Post by **AndreyB** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:56 am

Noel, do you know how much fuel your engine would want to start cold?

See http://www.rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=375&p=4810#p4810

Vanquizor · Post by **Vanquizor** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:32 am

here is what I use in Megasquirt note it maxes at 25.5

Cranking Pulse Width Temps: CLT only
-40...mS 25.5
-20...mS 23
0......mS 20
20....mS 18
40....mS 13
60....mS 8
80....mS 6
100..mS 5
130..mS 4.5
160..mS 4

its a little rich- but it works for a race car. These are batch fire settings so it gets that pulse 4 times every ignition cycle. There is also a difference in injector size from that car to this one to account for- it uses 577cc injectors, our test engine has ~230cc injectors.

Post by **AndreyB** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:16 pm

This table looks pretty linear to me, I would make it a linear function based on two points for now.

Vanquizor · Post by **Vanquizor** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:04 pm

Sorry temp measurements are all in F as thats what my MS reads.

Post by **AndreyB** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:12 pm

Vanquizor wrote:Sorry temp measurements are all in F as thats what my MS reads.

Fixed.

I guess I would use this project to torture our friends from Belize, the Cayman Islands, Palau, and the United States and use Celsius.

Vanquizor · Post by **Vanquizor** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:13 pm

Recieved a new Frankenstein board... planning to fire up the motor this week-end on it if I can figure it out. Am I still in the running to be running engine #2?

Post by **AndreyB** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:27 pm

Vanquizor wrote:Am I still in the running to be running engine #2?

Mx-5 is now in the lead, but yes, the race is still on!

You would need to download fresh java console and fresh firmware from http://rusefi.com/build_server/ you would need to execute
set_engine_type 2 command in the console to switch it to your defaults, you would need to wire trigger input either using the op-amp inputs http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware_Frankenstein_board#Step_2a:_Hall_sensor_input or the VR chip http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware_Frankenstein_board#VR_input (you are the yellow and green jumper wires)

you would also need a red jumper wire from +5 to 'vp' pin in the high-side corner if you are driving your ignition module with +5 http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware_Frankenstein_board#High_side_driver

While you are looking at the trigger I would post the recommended injectors/fuel pump pinout a bit later.

puff · Post by **puff** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:09 pm

don't forget dodge neon recently got rid of one of the trigger sensor inputs by default

Post by **AndreyB** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:41 pm

puff wrote:don't forget dodge neon recently got rid of one of the trigger sensor inputs by default

That's just for now. Once we crank it and record actual angle information for both trigger signals it would be reinstated.

Post by **AndreyB** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:57 pm

These three links could help
http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Software:User/en
http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Engine_Type
http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=210#p4038

You would need set_engine_type 2
I am working on your configuration to get it closer to reality, will post once I have it ready.

Post by **AndreyB** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:09 pm

So for just the first 'run' the only needed input would be 150/150/210 camshaft signal. It would need to be wired to PC6 either via op-amp channel 11 or via the VR chip - both ways you would need to add a jumper wire to the Frankenstein.

Now, output pinput: dodge_neon.c

General Frankenstein pinout is here

Post by **AndreyB** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:16 pm

Another thing: I've added most of the commands as commends (stuff following '//' symbols)
If you decide to go with the commands, you should need to execute 'writeconfig' command after changing some of the parameters and reboot the MCU.

Oh, by the way most of this stuff is exposed via Tuner Studio - same thing, some changes (pinout, pin modes) would require MCU reboot. Did you try Frankenstein with TunerStudio? The .ini file is in the same .zip with the firmware binary. That miniUSB on the Frankenstein is the Tuner Studio port.

I will PM you my cell, feel free to call if you need any guidance, this is probably a lot of info.

Vanquizor · Post by **Vanquizor** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:46 am

you are on it with a lot of info- but the little one went to bed early so off I go on this- board unpackaged and power connector on... now working on firmware update

Vanquizor · Post by **Vanquizor** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:03 am

ooohhhh exciting times... I think it knows its a neon!

2014-04-03 19_58: SerialManager: Opening port: COM4
2014-04-03 20_00: CommandQueue: SerialIO started
2014-04-03 20_00: CommandQueue: Sending [sec!17!set_engine_type 2]
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: FLASH_DATA_VERSION=20140401
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: unrealistic intake temperature 2147483647.83647
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: Reseting flash=3348
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: Flashing with CRC=80
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: Flash programmed in (ms): 1929
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: Flashed: 0
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: Dodge Neon
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: configurationVersion=1
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: RPM bin: 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: Y bin: 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: CLT: 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: CLT bins: -40.00000 -30.00000 -20.00000 -10.00000 0.00000 10.00000 20.00000 30.00000 40.00000 50.00000 60.00000 70.00000 80.00000 90.00000 100.00000 110.00000
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: IAT: 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: IAT bins: -40.00000 -30.00000 -20.00000 -10.00000 0.00000 10.00000 20.00000 30.00000 40.00000 50.00000 60.00000 70.00000 80.00000 90.00000 100.00000 110.00000
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: vBatt: 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: vBatt bins: 8.00000 9.00000 10.00000 11.00000 12.00000 13.00000 14.00000 15.00000
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: rpmHardLimit: 4000
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: rpmMultiplier=0.50000
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: tpsMin: 0
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: tpsMax: 0
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: timingMode: 0
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: fixedModeTiming: 50
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: crankingChargeAngle=70.00000
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: crankingTimingAngle=0.00000
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: globalTriggerAngleOffset=510.00000
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: idlePinMode: 0
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: malfunctionIndicatorPinMode: 0
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: analogInputDividerCoefficient: 2.00000
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: idleValvePin: 66
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: fuelPumpPin: mode 0 @ PC13
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: injectionPins: mode 0
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: injection 0 @ PB9
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: injection 1 @ PB8
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: injection 2 @ PE3
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: injection 3 @ PE5
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: ignitionPins: mode 1
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: ignition 0 @ PE8
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: ignition 1 @ NONE
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: ignition 2 @ PE10
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: ignition 3 @ PE1
2014-04-03 20_00: EngineState: confirmation_set_engine_type 2:17
2014-04-03 20_00: CommandQueue: got valid conf! set_engine_type 2

Post by **AndreyB** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:45 am

That was the hardest thing - to change engine type, should be easier from here on

Can you put a jumper wire between PD1 (trigger simulator pin) and PC6 (primary trigger input)? This would show you something on the 'digital sniffer' tab. The green vertical line is TDC and the is a status bar which shows mouse cursor angle. I hope I've set it to wasted with 10 btdc timing. Also try lower RPMs ('rpm 200') to see how it would act while cranking

Vanquizor · Post by **Vanquizor** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:01 am

Good news I've attached some jumpers and the STM powers up when docked on frank powered by my 5v source!

Vanquizor · Post by **Vanquizor** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:10 am

pd1-pd6 gives me this:

If I'm reading it right it looks like 10ms of fuel x4 per cycle and 15 degrees spark lead at 200RPM

Vanquizor · Post by **Vanquizor** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:36 am

even better news- with crank and cam on in11 and in12 frank is happy and we get signals while cranking.

Post by **AndreyB** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:58 pm

If you are trying anything this weekend: on Saturday I am busy at the garage between noon and 4pm CST, no plans for Sunday yet.

I've added some commands to the wiki - see Manual:Software:dev_console_commands#Fuel_Control

And you have most of the base values in https://sourceforge.net/p/rusefi/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/firmware/config/engines/dodge_neon.c

Vanquizor · Post by **Vanquizor** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:46 pm

We can drink beers and celebrate this week-end... I'll start the car engine tonight.

Post by **AndreyB** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:28 pm

I've just updated the firmware - the bins were all zeros in both tuning tables so values were totally static for your engine configuration.

Post by **AndreyB** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:56 am

I've just updated the firmware once again - there was a bug related to timing map. You are fine for a first run, but you would need to update if you want to actually change timing from the 7 BTDC hard-coded.

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[rusEfi] 1995 Dodge Neon

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